January 22, 2011
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Has Cheating Become the New Norm?
I followed the “rec post” of another xangan to go to a blog where someone was basically extolling the virtues of having extramarital affairs with the reasoning that it wasn’t really that big of a deal, and thinking in terms of “black and white” was really a juvenile concept she had thankfully outgrown.
She described one of the main problems with her past marriage as being sexless due to her spouse’s communication problems/emotional issues and made the point that if she had engaged in outside relationships, it might have been enough to save the marriage. Her viewpoint was sex outside of marriage could be limited to just the physical aspects of it with no emotional attachments and therefore shouldn’t be an issue.
Okay, so while I personally disagree with this stance – I understand that everyone is entitled to an opinion. The thing I found quite surprising is that all the people responding to her post were either in full agreement with her viewpoints or at worst undecided about it. The only argument against cheating made was the potential exposure to STD’s which would put the cheated on spouse at risk as well.
So I, being the opinionated philosophical nerd that I am, decided to submit a reply as a counter point to the others against cheating- tactfully and respectfully done of course.
I said that I believe when it comes to marriage, cheating isn’t a “shade of gray” but actually a black and white issue. I went on to say that cheating isn’t like having an open marriage where both parties are okay with outside relationships- one person is engaged in an extramarital relationship without their partner’s knowledge or consent. Cheating can destroy trust and how can one have a strong relationship without trust?
Her response was to acknowledge that some people do think cheating is a black and white issue but that 70% of the world’s population thinks otherwise. She also mentioned that a good amount of Americans may claim to be against cheating but are hypocritical about it. She defended cheating as opposed to remaining in a sexless unsatisfying marriage.
I found the 70% statistic to be suspect, but left it alone. My reply was no matter what the stats say, the only people truly relevant in the matter are the two married people. If the spouse doesn’t believe in cheating, their viewpoint is not likely to change in the face of a differing world perspective. Rather than having the only option of cheating or remaining in an unfulfilled marriage, I said the third option was ending it to look for a more suitable partner. I ended my reply with asking why should anyone get married if they aren’t going to take wedding vows seriously.
Her next reply was that my mentioning of wedding vows had struck a nerve and it showed in her response. She said she didn’t remember seeing and wedding vows that pledged sexual fidelity. Then she asked me which is worse, having sex outside the relationship or abandoning your partner if they should get ill or seriously injured? She ended it with stating the flow of the conversation was starting to get her mad.
I was surprised by her reaction as I didn’t believe I said anything inflammatory or antagonistic.
My next response was an apology for any unintended offense my comments may have conveyed. I decided this would be my final post in the matter. I mentioned that while marriage vows didn’t explicitly express sexual fidelity is most cases, it’s implicit in the act of marriage- otherwise adultery would not be seen as grounds for divorce or a criminal offense in some countries.
In answer to her question about whether cheating or abandoning your partner was worse, I said it really depends between the particular couple involved and what their specific feelings are about the matter. I stated my main point was one simply can’t make an arbitrary decision about which vows are important and which are not without bringing your partner into the discussion. Cheating by its very nature requires one to make the decision that sex outside the marriage is okay regardless of what one’s spouse thinks or feels about it.
Her response to that was to delete all my replies from her blog…doh!
I guess everyone isn’t entitled to an opinion after all…Two questions from this incident immediately come to mind-
1) Where is the logic of trying to argue the point that cheating is really no big deal and should be accepted by one’s partner even though it’s a breach in trust, when you aren’t even willing to tolerate a mere opposing viewpoint on the matter?
Seems like that’s asking for a heck of a lot of flexibility/tolerance of one’s partner coming from someone that sure appears to be lacking those same traits.2) Has cheating really become as commonplace/acceptable up to the 70% as she stated, and as so many xangan’s who chimed in praising her post and agreeing with her?
What’s your viewpoint on the matter?
Comments (16)
Since I recently came upon some information which stated that 85% of the population does not value truth and integrity, I would say she is probably correct. The world is sinking deeper and deeper; before you know it, the Second Coming shall arrive! Okay, perhaps that was a bit dramatic. I think values are going out the window; I am a black/white person so I believe cheating is wrong.
Let’s face it, induced monogamy is not a natural state of being. Some people need to get sexed by others.
hmmm I was the xangan rec that you followed? I think I must have misread her entry. I didn’t realize it was about CHEATING, where you actively deceive your partner to pursue sex elsewhere. I thought she meant more about an open marriage, to which I miiiiiight consider. Especially if my husband is impotent or suddenly becomes asexual or if i become that way. A life without sex…or the possibility of sex…may lead to a lot of misery.
I don’t condone cheating, but I seriously think monogamy is a forced state of mind, even though it’s not exactly politically correct for anyone to admit it. This is coming from me, and I’ve been married almost 3 years! One doesn’t even have to seek another partner–I feel the temptation is always there, and it takes a LOT of willpower not to act on it.
I was following that exchange. I didn’t leave a comment because I felt my opinion wasn’t going to matter. It is a black and white issue to me. A mate should be honest and above board with the other at all times. There are many forms of infidelity whether it is over finances, telling lies, non-communication issues, covert internet activities, or sex. I have no particular religious beliefs to make these observations. It is based on a long healthy marriage (41 yrs) where we have learned this is what it takes for us personally get it right.
i think cheating is wrong in general, but if she meant a sexual relationship outside of your marriage that the other person is aware of and understanding of, i could see why that would be a good idea.
as for deleting comments, i guess she has the right to do that. but i don’t see why she’d want to if the comments weren’t offensive, which it sounds like they weren’t. =/
It’s a black and white issue to me, emotionally and phsysically. To me, it is the ultimate betrayal. I do feel that it has become somewhat normal, and this saddens me =/ However I have never been one to be on par with “normal” especially with my expectations from romantic relationships.
Respect me, be faithful to me, I will return the same. Do me right or get the fuck out.
@Marshall1250 - Yes, as I found out, well defended counter opinions were definitely not welcome. This is really a matter of treating others as they would wish to be treated. I have found that many people who think cheating is okay, only want that freedom to apply to them, and are extremely jealous/paranoid of their partner doing the same.
@dude_this_world_sux - I gave her the opportunity to clarify her beliefs and she made it clear that it wasn’t about having an open discussion with your partner about going outside the relationship, or even two people agreeing that cheating is acceptable. She was trying to rationalize the ideas that deceptive cheating could be good for a marriage and was a minor offense. I think my comments were deleted because they posed a serious challenge to that rationalization. Her actions show a strong lack of tolerance for differing viewpoints – which ironically reveals a “black/white” type of thinking process that she claims to have outgrown.
@BingleBot - Agreed – regardless of what statistics and general opinion may say, what should matter most are what you and your partner believe. Making the case that “others are doing it so it must be okay” doesn’t hold water and is a way many people try to justify bad behavior.
@A_M0DERN_BEAUTY - That 85% figure is a pretty startling statistic if accurate. I feel as if many have lost their capacity to see beyond their own personal needs and along with that being about to make good value judgments on a broad scale. I’m not a believer in “situation ethics” where right and wrong are tailored to fit one’s personal agenda.
@Konrado - Since marriage and the promise of monogamy are voluntary choices, one can always discuss changing the “rules” with their partner if there is a desire to do so. But shouldn’t both people be in on the discussion, rather than one deciding to change the rules and breach a trust by going behind their partner’s back to cheat?
@wonderland7386 - I thought you might notice.
Yeah, you sure did misread her entry – I gave her two opportunities for her to clarify what she meant by cheating in bringing up open marriages and even a mutual agreement between two people that it’s okay to secretly “indulge”. She made it clear that she was including the “not tell your partner who has no idea or consent” kind of true cheating.
@lil_squirrel4ever - The thing is, monogamy is a choice, which can be changed if the two people in the relationship agree to it. However, if one person decides on their own to go outside of the assumed monogamous relationship without discussing it with their partner, then that’s another issue entirely and deals with betraying their partners trust. So the question really isn’t about monogamy as it is about the ethics of cheating.
I don’t condone cheating but if both people are open to a polyamorous relationship then good for them. I don’t care what other people do with their lives; their actions is the reason why they are in a sucky relationship to begin with. I mean, If you can’t give your heart truthfully to someone, don’t expect the other to reflect that back. Happiness in any relationship requires morale actions. People who think otherwise are the ones who are secretly cheating to get sex and what not. I’m not feeling sad for those who think it’s a norm to cheat; they’re the ones who are unhappy, not me =)
To answer 1), it appears as though she expects her significant other to be flexible; that doesn’t necessarily have to mean that she tolerate the other people’s point of views.
remember, to each their own. 
2) where the heck did she get that data? hmmm.. here’s some that i found: http://www.menstuff.org/issues/byissue/infidelitystats.html “Cheating spouse statistics confirm that 50 and 70 percent of
married men (between 38 and 53 million men) have cheated or will
cheat on their wives. “
How depressing… makes me never want to get married.
Anyway, maybe it’s time we write “sexual fidelity” into wedding vows.
but i don’t think that would prevent a cheating spouse from actually cheating though. :p If these statistics are correct (that I will most likely be cheated on) maybe it’s better not to ever get married and be a proud, independent woman for life. :p
Oh, trust me. People engaged in affairs (pun intended and not) they inherently know are wrong usually find ways to snap at people who are telling them the truth of what they refuse to admit. This woman’s response sounds like a pretty strong case of denial, and I think she’s aware of that if she’s getting so catty in her responses.
I definitely don’t condone cheating but open marriages are okay by me, as long as both parties agree that it’s okay. I think one of the most important qualities that you can have in a marriage is open communication about anything your marriage is going to be facing. When you feel like you have to keep a secret about something, especially something that has the potential to derail your marriage such as cheating, your marriage is already in trouble. To go behind your partner’s back in any way is just not cool.
I’d be interested in reading that post that you’re talking about. I’m interested in hearing how anyone could condone cheating. Why not support open communication instead? Message me the link, por favor?
@MS_INSATIABLE - I was surprised to see so many people in favor of deceptive cheating. Agree that honesty between both people is the foundation of a good relationship.
@lilniteanngel - 1) It wasn’t as if she was just expressing her personal opinion and wasn’t inviting or encouraging feedback. For those who expressed indecision or doubt, she happily and actively engaged in encouraging them to see things from her POV. All was well in her world until I brought up some issues that were not so easily dismissed.
Logical thought dictates that if she expects people to “open” their minds to the prospects of cheating on their partner, she should at least have an open mind to tolerate opposing viewpoints to avoid being hypocritical. I also find it illogical to think that being dishonest and deceptive to one’s spouse is a good thing for the relationship.
2) As I’ve said, the statistical data of “cheaters” isn’t nearly as important as the statistics of the one you are partnered too. If only 30% of people believe in fidelity, and you are among that 30%, then it behooves you to find someone who belongs to that same group by expecting and requiring mutual honest/open communication rather than one just giving up and expecting their partner cheating is a foregone conclusion. =)
@ElusiveSoul - Yeah, when I brought up breaking wedding vows, that seemed to trigger a angry defense/attack mode from her. it seems that bringing that reality up was interfering with her “no one gets hurt” fantasy of cheating.
@TheCheshireGrins - It sure seems hard to fathom anyone advocating being dishonest with your spouse over something as big as extramarital relationships. The shock of her post was eclipsed by the abundance of positive replies along with the lack of any real dissenting views. That’s why I felt compelled to add my 2 cents.
Will PM you the info…
Provocative topic.
My stance is always to not do to others that which I do not want done to me.
- Christians are familiar with this from Matthew 7:12
: “
Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them”
- The Greek philosopher, Epicurus, said “It is impossible to live a pleasant life without living wisely and well and justly (agreeing ‘neither to harm nor be harmed’),and it is impossible to live wisely and well and justly without living a pleasant life.”
- In Confucius, Analects XV.24, Zi Gong asked, saying, “Is there one word which may serve as a rule of
practice for all one’s life?” The Master said, “Is not RECIPROCITY such a
word?
- Chinese has this saying: 己所不欲，勿施于人(Never impose on others what you would not choose for yourself)
You can find all the above on Wikipedia
It seems to me this is not about trust and vows per se, but generally about making an effort to be a reasonable, considerate and responsible adult. You have been most kind and patient – I would have just told her to “grow up”.
@Jules - I completely agree with your stance, which I thought was the norm- which is why I was perplexed by the all the positive encouragement she received.
As you have shown through your examples, the basic tenets of treating others with consideration and respect goes beyond any religious or moral code and is a natural global conclusion of how humans should interact for best results.
“- I would have just told her to “grow up”.
I can’t lie – I had to bite my tongue as part of me wanted to go that route give her a blast of “soulfire”, but I held back to see if she could actually defend and justify her position.
Of course that pent up energy had to come out somehow – which is why I created this post to discuss it. =)
Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts on the matter. It’s also refreshing to know that my view on the matter isn’t a lone aberration.